This post is long. At nearly 5000 words, it is the longest post I have ever written. It is an extended response to a letter I received. After the introduction, the words in bold are quotes from my previous sermons. The words in italics are direct quotes (exactly as they were printed) from the letter I received.
On June 25 my church, Two Rivers United Methodist Church, celebrated Reconciling Sunday. This was to celebrate that we joined the Reconciling Ministries Network, an organization of United Methodist churches, groups, and individuals who affirm the sacred worth of LGBTQ+ and are committed to working for a more inclusive church. It was the culmination of six months of work, discussion, prayer, discernment, and study.
The morning of the service, the sanctuary was decorated with rainbow streamers. A pride flag hung from the wall. I wore a newly purchased rainbow stole. We had spoken-word poets share their work. Two of the poets were LGBTQ+ teenagers who felt ostracized by the Church in the past, but were welcomed into our celebration with love. A speaker from Clock, Inc., a local LGBTQ+ social services agency gave a word of thanks. We had a video of congratulations from other Reconciling pastors and leaders in our conference. My daughter, who is 16 and a lesbian, gave the sermon about the love of Jesus she felt in this church, at camp that summer, and in that moment of worship.
There were tears of joy. There were hugs and love. It was our most well-attended service since Easter, and there were guests from the community – mostly young adults – who we had invited at a recent Pride event. Afterwards, people basked in God’s love and lingered with conversation and cake for quite some time. When it was almost over, an older woman of our church – a member for over 60 years – stopped me on the way out.
“Thank you, Pastor Robb, for leading us here,” she said. “It took some time for some of our conservative older people to get here, but you brought us here with the Bible and with Jesus. And that mattered.”
A few days later, I received a letter. I should say right up front that this was the only negative response I received after this announcement. It was thoughtful. It was well-written. It made me sad, but I decided not to dismiss it because if seemed to come from a place of genuine concern and not pure vitriol. The letter remained in my backpack for quite some time. This week, I was preparing for a sermon series on Paul’s letter to the Galatians and decided to take another look at it.
I unfortunately opened the envelope in a way that destroyed the return address, so I cannot make a direct reply. Instead, I will do so here, point by point.
Dear Pastor Rob, (misspelled name, but that happens all the time)
My name is Dee (changed for the purpose of this blog post). A friend of mine has been regularly watching your services on-line for about 9 months. My friend has always enjoyed your messages and your choir. My friend called me yesterday quite upset and asked me to go to your website and look at how your church was decorated for the June 25th Reconciling Service.
It is pretty amazing that someone I have never met can watch our services. I am glad that she enjoyed my preaching for 9 months. I can only assume that she heard me talk about this day coming for quite some time. I spoke often of the discussions that we were having. I invited people to call, text, or email me with questions. My cards have been on the table, so to speak, for quite some time about my belief about LGBTQ+ inclusion.
In April, I preached on Peter’s vision in Acts, and said “LGBTQ+ people have been a part of the Jesus movement from the beginning. They have followed the Way of Christ. They have received the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is, and always has been, inclusive of Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. It took time for Peter to understand that, but he learned. It is taking time for the Church to understand that, but I cannot help but wonder, “If God gave LGBTQ+ people the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, then who are we? Should we stand in God’s way?” I wonder if Dee’s friend enjoyed that sermon.
I wonder if Dee’s friend was watching on Palm Sunday, when I said, “Over the last few months our congregation has been stirred. Our Reconciling Conversations have been a way to shake things up a bit. We are talking about ways we may shake up the way the Church has acted toward LGBTQ+ people. We are shaking up the way we think about invitation, inclusion, and the Kingdom. We have been praying for the last 28 days (or so), hoping that the Holy Spirit will stir something in our hearts, in our community, and in our church. Perhaps you have been stirred. Perhaps you have been shaken…”
I mean, we didn’t just wake up on June 25 and decide to decorate the sanctuary in rainbows. It all started on Pentecost 2022, over a year before, when we discussed as a congregation how we would respond to the launching of the Global Methodist Church. It began again in January with townhall meetings after worship. It continued in Lent with a period of prayer and discernment. It included two writing sessions and a straw poll. In the end, the vote to become a Reconciling Church was overwhelming. I wonder if Dee’s friend saw any of this. If not, I can consider a failure of communication on my part. I thought I went out of my way to make sure everyone was invited to speak, listen, and be heard. I feel bad that Dee’s friend was shocked by the rainbow streamers, but I can’t help but wonder if they were really paying attention at all.
I’ll be honest, I didn’t watch the service. I felt after just seeing the sanctuary and the statements of your church and the RMN [Reconciling Ministries Network] that the service would not be in line with what Jesus would want us to focus on during a worship service.
Well, that explains a lot. The streamers were all you needed to see. You missed two young people pour out their heart about the pain they have experienced. These were two young people who had been coming to our church for an after school program for months and felt loved and accepted in ways that one literally described as “life saving.” You missed Adam, a lifelong Methodist who a few weeks earlier watched his church celebrate their disaffiliation. I guess you would probably feel welcome in that congregation. Adam didn’t. He saw the streamers and his heart leapt.
You missed my daughter share her story as a Queer Christian who has felt loved by this congregation. She told a story about going to camp and finding a girl who didn’t “agree with her lifestyle.” But they spent the week worshiping together, sharing together, eating together, and praying together. They became friends who have a deeper understanding and appreciation for each other, and know that they share the love of Christ.
I am a former Certified Lay Speaker of the United Methodist Church and have lead Disciple Bible multiple times. I am also a former, life-long Methodist. I only tell you this so you have an idea of my background. I am currently attending a Bible Church and love the focus on the Bible and Looking Like Jesus.
I too am a lifelong Methodist. One of my first roles in a church was to lead a Disciple Bible study. It was an incredible and humbling honor. I learned to love the Bible and wanted to learn more and dig deeper into the Scriptures. When I went to seminary, I considered other theological paths, but fell deeper in love with Wesleyan Theology. The United Methodist Church has always believed that Scriptures are sufficient for salvation, but the Bible is not the end-all and be-all of knowledge about the world. I have long appreciated the value of Scripture as our primary source of revelation, but reason, tradition, and experience should also inform our thoughts and theology.
I preach from the Bible. Every week. I study the Bible deeply. I read from a wide variety of scholars from different backgrounds. I do my best to learn about the historical, linguistic, and literary contexts. I love the Bible far too much to believe that it is infallible or inerrant. I believe that the Bible is our best way of knowing the heart of God and Christ, and I believe that the overarching story of the Bible is that God so loves the world that God will do anything to bring us all into salvation and love. We are called to live into the Kingdom of God, and the story of Scripture is a powerful way to guide us there.
Pastor, I am all for welcoming the least, the last and the lost into God’s house of prayer. Every single one of us is a sinner and Jesus wants us all to feel welcome and come to worship Him.
See, we agree. I fear a ‘but’ is coming though. I’ve long said that someday I want to write a book called “The Holy But of God.” My best friend preached “I like big buts.” I fear however, that your ‘but’ might not be the kind I like. ‘Buts’ have an incredible power to erase all that came before. I have a feeling that your ‘but’ is going to erase that invitation.
But to worship Him with a contrite and repentant heart. To come and learn about Him and His precepts and worhip (sic.) Him.
Well, it’s interesting. I don’t actually disagree with any of this either. I think we may have a different idea of what repentance means. To me, it is about turning. When we worship, we are hoping to turn toward God. All through life, we get distracted. We lose our way. We miss the mark of God’s love. So, in worship we come and help each other re-aim. That is what repentance means to me.
So I have to ask you, are you preaching repentance (asking for forgiveness and ceasing the sin) to the LGBTQ+ community?
Well, there you go. I would say yes, I am preaching about repentance to the LGBTQ+ community, but not because they are LGBTQ+. Loving another person is never a sin. This is the foundation of my stance on inclusion in the church. I do not believe that a man falling in love with another man and having a sexual relationship with him is a sin. Sexual sin, as described in the Bible, is about idolatry, exploitation, or going against one’s nature. It has been proven that same-sex attraction is, in fact, natural. I do not think that two consenting adults falling in love, getting married, and raising a family is an abomination. Paul’s world was very different than our own. His understanding of sexuality is very different than our own. So yes, I do preach repentance, but I don’t think a loving, mutually consenting same-sex relationship is anything anyone has to repent of.
Do you know what the triangle colors at the flag-pole end of their flag represents?
Well, I assume you mean the part of the Pride Progress flag that is pointing forward, as in ‘forward thinking,’ and then also has colors that represent racial justice, and justice for trans people? The designer of the flag put it this way, “the light blue, pink and white stripes represent trans and non-binary individuals, and the brown and black ones represent marginalized People of Colour (POC) communities. The black stripe has a double meaning as it is also intended for “those living with AIDS and the stigma and prejudice surrounding them, and those who have been lost to the disease.” (https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-progress-pride-flag)
Black-Black People
Brown=Brown People
Ok, I would put it more nuanced than that, but I guess that’s kind of right.
Baby blue = the people attracted to infant boys
Baby pink=the people attracted to minor girls
White triangle=the people who are attracted to virgin children.
Well, that escalated quickly. At this point, I’m at a loss for words. This is so wrong. I can only assume this is some Q-Anon theory you read on The Blaze. I realize that symbols are open to interpretation but choosing to interpret this flag in such an ugly way reveals more about you than it does about those who choose to fly it. There might be some fringe groups who claim this, but every reputable LGBTQ+ rights group has repudiated this. I guarantee you that every person in my congregation would reject this contrived explanation you just gave. Gay people are not all pedophiles. The sad irony is in Paul’s letters, the word that gets translated to “homosexual” in most modern Bible probably actually referred to the cultural practice of pederasty, and there was a time when Bible translations reflected that, much more specific practice that was more common in Paul’s time.
Sexual abuse of children is a vile crime. It is a problem that must be taken seriously, but filling people minds with false information and misguided stigma does not help prevent abuse. One researcher, who has been working on children sexual abuse for over 25 years wrote in an article, “”…[M]ost men who molest little boys are not gay. Only 21 percent of the child molesters we studied who assault little boys were exclusively homosexual. Nearly 80 percent of the men who molested little boys were heterosexual or bisexual and most of these men were married and had children of their own.” (https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/victim-assistance/jwrc/keep-kids-safe/sexuality-of-offenders/)
Pointing to the Progress Pride Flag as an emblem of child sexual abuse does not protect children. It just distracts people from seeing the real problem, but I have a bad feeling you’re not done.
The triangle is pointed at the rainbow which they have adopted as the flag representing the LGBTQ+ community. They took the rainbow, the symbol of peace God set in the clouds to remind HIMSELF never to destroy the earth again, which He did to remove sin from the earth. to represent their sinful lifestyles. In my mind, that is an offense to our Heavenly Father and the promise He made to us that day.
The rainbow has not been co-opted. It is still a reminder of God’s love and God’s promise. I should add however, that if God intended to wipe sin from the earth with the flood, God failed. Do you really worship a failure of a God? I won’t pull that thread any farther. Secondly, I don’t know a ton of queer folks, although I probably know more than you. As far as I can tell, their lifestyle includes coaching their daughter in soccer, performing in community theater, singing in our church choir, playing high school volleyball, and having coffee with friends. The only Gay Agenda I know of is the one that says, “please don’t take away my right to exist as an American citizen and beloved child of God.”
The LGBTQ+ community represents sexual immorality. There’s just no getting around that.
Remember your Shakespeare? There’s a line from Hamlet that I like in these situations (I admit I had to look up which play it was from). “‘The lady doth protest too much, methinks.’”
In 1 Corinthians 6:18-20, Paul says, ‘Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, who you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your bodies.'” If my information is correct about the colors in the triangle
It’s not. Your information is very wrong.
This promotes pedophilia.
It doesn’t.
The sin against and inside our children’s bodies. The worst sin ever. And it’s hanging in your sanctuary.
Ok, there is a lot to unpack with Paul’s letters. There is a cultural and historical context you need to consider. Paul abhorred sexual exploitation. And so does any other right-thinking LGBTQ+ person I know. We all agree that sexually abusing minors is wrong. Consent matters. Respect and mutuality matter. These things can be as present in a same-sex relationship as it is in my relationship with my wife. Marriage is about two people coming together to make the world a better place. The purpose of a modern Christian marriage (we won’t get into the history of marriage and why so much of our language comes from the world of raising animals) is for two people to grow together, grow in their devotion to God, and make the Kingdom of God a reality in their home and the world. I cannot understand why two men or two women cannot make that happen as much as a man and woman can. Love is eternal. It is not gendered.
Also, you are quick to quote Paul. I am sure you have highlighted some of the other parts of his letters. There are also the words of Jesus, who tells us to worry about the log in your own eye before worrying about the splinter in your gay neighbor’s eye. There is also the part about Jesus talking about those who were “born eunuchs” entering the Kingdom of Heaven. Yes, there are verses in the Bible that people draw on to condemn homosexuality. Some of it appears very cut and dry, but a deeper look into the context of these verses, and an honest assessment of what we know about human sexuality reveals a much more complicated picture. Instead of pointing to a handful of verses that alienate a group of people, I see the story of inclusion for all people that runs throughout the Scriptures. I’m sorry that your friend didn’t hear more of it in her nine months of listening to me.
I am sorry Pastor Rob, but it looks to me that the RMN has just found a neat little way, “In the name of Jesus,” to do what the Roman Catholic priests did in private, publicly you are welcoming this sin into your church. Into God’s Huse of Prayer, (Mark 11:17)
Do you honestly think that it is only Catholic priests who have had this issue? Yes, it seems to be rampant there, and the cover up has been terrible. Perhaps repressing people’s sexual life in unhealthy ways manifested itself in ugly ways. Perhaps molesters were drawn to an institution the protected its own and valued secrecy. Yes, the Roman Catholic Church has done great evil, but do you think that “Bible-Believing” churches like yours have been exempt? The Southern Baptist Church is the largest self-professing “Bible believing” denomination in the USA. There has been widespread sexual abuse and cover ups there, too (see what I did there, I provided evidence for a claim I am making).
I don’t want you to mistake my belief that, yes, Jesus would want us all welcomed, loved and forgiven. But without contrite hearts and a repentive spirit, all you’re doing is condoning the worst sin there is and welcoming it into God’s house of prayer.
I’m not sure where you’re getting this “worst sin” thing. Yes, sexual abuse is horrible. I agree. Jesus however, talked a lot more about economic sin than sexual sin. He seemed to be a lot more concerned with healing the sick, feeding the hungry, and turning over a social order that exploited many for the profit of a few. The stories Jesus told about the Kingdom of God were about grace, forgiveness, restoring community, and calling people to live their fullest, most honest lives. I do not want to force LGBTQ+ to live a false life. Jesus delighted in the truth, and the truth for some people is that they feel wholly loved in a same-sex relationship.
A place that should be a sanctuary for all looking for safety, forgiveness and guidance without the fear of being judged themselves or watching a specific group being held up and favored.
Yes, I agree again. The church should be a place of safety. Especially for our young people. Studies have shown that being a part of a religious community is a factor in protecting young people from suicide. Churches can provide safety, guidance, and a source of hope for young people struggling with ideas of suicide. This, however, is not true for LGBTQ+ youth growing up in churches.
“A strong correlation, however, also exists between level of religiosity and negative attitudes toward homosexuality (Rowatt, LaBouff, Johnson, Froese, & Tsang, 2009). Additionally, the majority of Americans (57%) identify religious belief (belief in God) as a requisite for moral judgment (Kohut, Wike, & Horowitz, 2007). Due to these factors, LGBT persons who mature in a religious community context report experiencing increased discrimination and internalized homophobia” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706071/
So yes, a church should be a sanctuary for people. It should be a place where they can be their true selves, not some false-self that a simplistic reading of the Bible imposes on them. For many LGBTQ+ young people, the church is a dangerous place. It is a place where they must hide themselves. It is a place where they have been called an “abomination” for the natural feelings that arise in them. For you, those streamers you saw meant “this church isn’t following Christ.” To the LGBTQ Christians in our congregation, those streamers meant, “I have found a home with people who will love me for who I am.” And in that love, we will provide guidance. We will provide discipline. We will confess our sins, seek forgiveness, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us.
The bible also speaks against favoritism. (James 2:9) Is the RMN not favoring the LGBTQ+ community? Where is the church that favors murderers? Thieves? Pedophiles? Adulterers?
So first of all, Are you honestly equating a man falling in love with another man and trying to live in a monogamous relationship with murder? This sounds like a “slippery slope” argument, which is a logical fallacy that appeals to the weak-minded. Do you know any gay people? Have you ever met a queer Christian person? Have you talked with them and gotten to know them? I’m not sure you could do that and still ask this question faithfully. I get that you think homosexuality is a sin, but do you honestly feel that a church including gay people is the same as championing murder?
Secondly, Christ said that the first shall be last and the last shall be first. In our society, LGBTQ+ people have been treated as the last for centuries. They have been subjected to unjust laws, discriminatory practices, and violence. Decorating the church with rainbows does not make them favored, it just signals to them that this is a place where that violence will not occur. It’s not about privileging one group over another; it is about celebrating with a group of people who have long been subject to persecution. This does not mean that we are discriminating against “straight” people, but unfortunately when you have spent your entire life in a place of racial and heteronormative privilege, equality feels like oppression.
I believe the Holy Spirit laid it on my heart to tell you these things Pastor. If you fail to warn your congregation of God’s Wrath
The words you choose to capitalize are puzzling to me, but I think it is also revelatory. You go to God’s Wrath, I choose to dwell in God’s Grace. Jesus came because God so loved the world. He didn’t come to condemn it. Yet somehow, you feel the need to do that for God. The Holy Spirit is working in me, too. You may not believe it, but the Holy Spirit was present with us on June 25 as we celebrated becoming a Reconciling Church. The Holy Spirit told me to put this letter in my backpack and wait for a few months, and as I started to study Galatians, the Spirit called on me to take it out and respond.
And tell them of the gospel which can save them, you will have a reckoning with the Lord Himself. I would do some serious soul-searching, bible reading and praying on how you are shepherding your flock.
Believe me, I do. I study the Bible many times over the course of the week, and have been for years. I’m going to put this bluntly, your attitude toward LGBTQ+ is dangerous. You may think it is grounded in the Bible. I know you can find your verses to support your claim, but you can also find verses to support slavery and the subjugation of women. You are choosing to interpret the Bible in a way that is contributing to harming countless gay kids. You can repent. You can read your Bible again, but through the lens of Christ’s love and not through the lens of finding flaws in others. You can pray to God to soften your heart. You can change. I have seen it. I have led people in that change. There is still hope for you to stop doing harm. You love God, I believe that. And I believe that you love other people. Lean into that love. You don’t have to use the Bible as a weapon that harms people any more.
There are resources you can find. Good, scholarly, Biblical arguments that explain these things. I have only scratched the surface, and I hope that somehow this has placed in you a seed. Perhaps you may question some of the things you profess. That’s okay. Follow those questions. I encourage you to seek pastors, teachers, and scholars that are willing to ask tough questions and not just quote random Bible verses at you to prove they are correct. I believe the Bible to be much more rich, layered, and insightful than you can even imagine. I hope you find it someday.
You will be held accountable on Judgment Day my friend. And for what it’s worth, I do hope that on that day, you will hear the Lord say, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant.’
In the Lord’s Service and Love,
Dee
The story of Scripture ends with a beautiful picture of God’s grace and a New City. The city’s gates are open. There is abundance for all people. There is peace. In the center of the city is the Lamb, and Christ’s final word is “Come.” I believe that grace has the final word. I hope you find that peace. In the meantime, I will continue to work out my salvation in fear and trembling, not fearful of a God waiting to punish me if I do it wrong, but fearful for a world of people like you who are waiting to punish me if I do it right.
P.S. Your “Welcoming Statement” also seems to deny God and his plan right off because it says there’s no male and female. Genesis 1:27 says: So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
I doubt that you’ve made it this far in my response. After all, you couldn’t bring yourself to even watch an online service because of some streamers, but I find it quite ironic that you have based your entire system of condemning LGBTQ people based on Paul’s letters, yet you ignore this allusion from Paul’s letter to the Galatians. In fact, many believe that Galatians 3:28 is from earlier than Paul. In fact, he is probably quoting a baptismal creed, something that all the first followers of Christ would have said and known, “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Being one in Christ means that we are breaking down these divisions of race, class, and gender. Being one in Christ means there is a new creation, one that doesn’t have these divisions, hierarchies, and judgment-laiden systems that you seem to cling to. Listen to Paul – more than just a few verses taken out of context – and know that you can be set free from these sinful systems.
Finally, you close with a quote from Genesis 1. It is a beautiful poem, one of my favorites. It shows how God creates order out of chaos. It reveals the beauty and wonder of God who simply speaks, and it is. It points to the goodness of creation, indeed the very-goodness of humankind. In this beautiful poem, God creates day and night. God creates sea and land. God creates male and female.
The glory of this poem however, is that the greatest beauty of creation does not lie in the binary system of day and night, but in the incredible explosion of diversity found in the dawn and the sunset. There is indeed sea and land, but who has not stood on a beach and been awed by the glory of God. The biodiversity of the marsh and shorelines reveal God’s greatest work. The sun and the moon are wondrous, but there are places in the sky in between these two great lights – nebulae, galaxies, etc – that have revealed incredible wonder.
You see, it is in the in-between, the spectrum of diversity that God’s hand is most clearly revealed. Why would it be different with humans? You want to cling to an outdated system of binary gender expression – but this has never been the reality of God’s creation. There has always been a spectrum. There has always been an in-between. God’s greatest work has always been reveled in the diversity of humanity – not in the clear and simple categories you want to impose.
So again, I encourage you to notice the next sunset which is neither night nor day. Stand in awe of the ocean waves re-creating the shorelines. There is more to God’s Kingdom than you seem to be able to see right now. Embrace the dawn, for it is there that a risen Christ meets us on our journey and reveals to us the new and abundant life that is possible.
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Dear girl friends of my daughters,
The Fat Pastor 